THREAD
January 6, 2021 - The day that COVID usurped the 12th Amendment to the Constitution.
"The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted
In Joint Session of Congress"
Transcript to follow, but you can watch it here:
Now onto "agreement" with the rule, prefaced by a social distancing chiding of the GOP by Speaker Pelosi.
PELOSI: The gentlemen on the Republican side of the aisle will please observe the social distancing and uh-agree to what we have - eleven members on each side, so that we (mic cut) responsibility to this chamber, to this responsibility, and to this...House...of Representatives.
So, agreement by exiting?
PELOSI: Please exit the floor if you do not have an assigned role from your leadership.
Assigned roles from leadership? I thought their role (TO BE PRESENT) was assigned by the 12th Amendment of the Constitution.
I could be wrong.
PELOSI: You can share with your staff if you want to have a few more, but you cannot be (mic cut) together on the floor of the House...with that many people in here.
Rep. H. Morgan Griffith (R-Va.) rose with a point of order (parliamentary inquiry).
MORGAN: In order to follow with the Speaker's instructions that only a limited number of people be on the floor, may I ask how one would make an objection or make a parliamentary inquiry in the future if you’re not on the floor but in the gallery?
PENCE: Under Title 3 of the United States Code debate is not permitted in the Joint Session.
MORGAN: A Parliamentary Inquiry, Mr. Vice President. I'm not attempting to debate, I'm trying to find out how a parliamentary inquiry or parliamentary point of order would be made in following with the Speaker's request that most of us not be on the floor. How do you make one of those points of order when you don't know what's going to happen later?
PENCE: Uh, respectfully...
MORGAN: Yes, sir.
PENCE: The gentleman's parliamentary inquiry constitutes debate, which is not permitted under Section 18 Title 3 of the United States Code.
Later, as state after state was counted, came the inquiry from Pence:
PENCE: Are there any objections?
ALL: Silence from the 22 members PRESENT. No objections heard from any of those NO LONGER PRESENT.
"The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives..."
END
ADDENDUM: Correction. There were 44 present, not ejected. Not 22.
11 Democrat House and 11 Democrat Senate, 11 Republican House and 11 Republican Senate.
So 394 not "in the presence" of Mike Pence at the time of counting.
Thank you for the thread.
Are you saying, because of the covid rule, a quorum wasn't present and therefore no business could be done?
Yes.
Most of the quorum already there and "in the presence" of Mike Pence was ejected from the chamber, and no longer in his presence, let alone able to object.
Pelosi might as well have said that they could sit go out in the halls or watch on TV if they wanted to. Which is clearly in violation of the Twelfth Amendment.
@StevenDouglas @RSwift So the counting of the Electoral Votes was unconstitutional!! Great!!!
Now what?
@StevenDouglas @RSwift Do you agree that Trump dissolved, or is dissolving, the “1871 Corporation US” so we end up with a “1776 Republic US”??
And maybe he has to do that before the correct and CONSTITUTIONAL count of the electoral votes takes place?
@charlotte1958 @StevenDouglas @RSwift the “ constitutional” process has failed us thus far ...
@StevenDouglas great thread! Let's see of this comes into play!
@charlotte1958 @StevenDouglas @RSwift
Maybe this had to be played through? I have a gut feeling nothing is as it seems. Trump not out yet ..!
@KodiakIsland @StevenDouglas @RSwift
Yes, I have that feeling too!! We’re in the middle of the greatest spy novel ever written but we’re not even sure what it’s saying!!
Trump does seem to be not really out yet.. he still has the nuclear football and the military are making moves as if they are not accepting Biden’s authority, like giving him a copy of the same codes Trump has, not new codes..
@charlotte1958 @KodiakIsland @StevenDouglas @RSwift Where did you see that regarding nuclear codes?
@evenflo @charlotte1958 @StevenDouglas @RSwift
Great question regarding nuclear codes....
@KodiakIsland @evenflo @StevenDouglas @RSwift Several places from yesterday..
@charlotte1958 @KodiakIsland @evenflo @RSwift
Yep, standard protocol. Different codes and everything.
Hopefully they gave him the play practice codes.
"Hi Uncle Cabbage, Big Guy Chief Master President Dude, you, here's you nuke codes!"
@charlotte1958 @evenflo @StevenDouglas @RSwift
Now this is down right frightening.
@charlotte1958 @StevenDouglas @RSwift
no claim brought to SCOTUS so no change to that
@StevenDouglas @RSwift holy shot this woman is evil . How can she just do this?
I believe it's because she's corrupt and has been getting away with it for decades.
@inverness01 @StevenDouglas @RSwift because the GOP has no balls. They do what they are told except for a handful of people, the entire Congress is corrupt. My opinion of course.
One thing is well-established, and that is that Pence and Pelosi cannot be personally questioned on what they say or do in the regular course of business.
So they're covered.
The process itself, however, is another matter altogether. It can be questioned. Will it be?
Not going to speculate. It's just something to watch for.
@StevenDouglas @RSwift oh ok so one can have integrity and follow the constitution while the other can spit in our faces and NONE of us can do shit, they can basically play dictator ?
@inverness01 @StevenDouglas @RSwift By Power. Unbridled power. No one has stood up to her. Why? Fear & love of their own power.
@StevenDouglas @RSwift excellent analysis new to me
"The prohibition on transacting business unless there is a quorum is a serious one. There seems to be an urban legend that business at meetings can continue without a quorum so long as no one raises the issue. Not true! The general rule is that business transacted in the absence of a quorum is null and void. In fact, members who vote on motions at meetings without a quorum can at times be held personally liable for their actions."
@hejoural @StevenDouglas @RSwift
This is fact and it goes all the way down to the muni level (your local gov).
If something requires a quorum there needs to be a specific amount of individuals, since they were using the old COVID card trick, they should of had all members present via zoom with the ability to have a hand vote, not electronic, a raising of the hands. Yes it would have been a painful process, but we are talking about the presidency of the US.This was not an actual true counting.
Wow, great thread, Steven!
This is the first I’ve heard of the unorthodox proceedings.
@StevenDouglas @RSwift Did Pence have any procedural power to overrule Pelosi's COVID rule?
I have no idea. Good question though. Pence comes over from executive branch to discharge his duty in the legislative branch, my guess is no he didn't. I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject but think a challenge would have to come from a legislator who was present.
@StevenDouglas I think you've nailed it, good sir. I was just watching the footage from that day before I read your thread. It appears we've all been watching a well-scripted show!
They had Nancy improvise so she ended up flubbing a lot of her lines. More realistic that way.
@StevenDouglas Absolutely. And her ongoing "mental decline" (maybe it's real... I truly don't know) bolsters the entire performance. A bumbling fool who knows not what she's really saying, everyone is left confused and knows that asking her to clarify their questions is a worthless pursuit.
@StevenDouglas Now the big questions are: When do they reveal the great act? And how do they pull the curtains up to show us?
My guesses about all the whens, whats and hows have all proved worthless. And I'm at peace with that.
I'm patient, trusting, in it to win it, and everything's gravy.
@StevenDouglas @EliHodson
Everything is gravy.
You are correct sir.
@StevenDouglas thanks for the thread. Puts everything into context.
@StevenDouglas Morgan Griffith is my Congressman. God bless him.
1. I think this explains why some people are claiming that Trump just installed Joe Biden as his puppet, who'll be unable to sign any Bills put to him by the legislature, or undo any of Trump's EOs. Also why Trump still allegedly has the nuclear football and Biden does not. And why the Pentagon is being less than cooperative with Biden's inquiries. Meanwhile Trump still exercises full authority of the President's office. Hence the "Good luck," comment by Trump.
Sounds like a quorum to me! 🤣🤪😉
Technically, Pence did not "defend the Constitution" when he silently allowed Pelosi to announce her new rules. He could have objected, citing the clear and unambiguous wording of the Twelfth Amendment.
Pelosi could have then clarified that the gallery somehow would be counted as present, and provisions could have been made for objections therefrom.
He didn't.
The jury is out for me on Pence. I can easily read it two different ways, given what was at stake.
Yeah, the Pence verdict for me will be an aftermath one. I literally have no opinion - just biased leanings.
"Et tu, Mike?" isn't something I'll rule out, but the romantic in me continues to hold place for a long run hero who opted for undeserved slings and arrows ... from his own side, for his own side.
Whatever it is I honestly don't care. I didn't vote for Trump Pence. Pence was always incidental to me. I voted for Trump. No horse in the Pence race.
@allamericanmale @StevenDouglas Pence wasn't present for Trump's sendoff - maybe Trump didn't want him there, after what happened on the 6th - but he was present at the illegitimate inauguration, knowing that it was illegitimate.
Yes, and that IS more information. But what kind?
Look at the quote below from Lincoln. It's real. He said those words.
I often wonder how many might have turned their backs on Trump fearing that the nation, the union, could not withstand what he was contemplating.
If any of them feared a catastrophically Pyrrhic victory they might, in good faith (right or wrong, our feelings about it be damned) choose not to go along. Or not to go along 'yet'.
Don't know.
@StevenDouglas You're giving them way too much credit. The only thing these entrenched and corrupt pols think about is their own self-preservation, self-enrichment, or greasing the wheel for a future payoff. Cynical, I know, but I have a feeling about these scumbags.
I see what you mean by an aftermath verdict.
But I'll be extremely surprised and disappointed if Pence turns out to be on the bad side. I actually find NO EVIDENCE AT ALL for such a scenario.
Trump himself made a lot of steps that we can't explain at the moment. So why is it so hard to accept that Pence, who was his closest ally in PRACTICALLY EVERY OTHER SITUATION, also did such things?
Trump's plan is complex, and required trusted cooperation like this.
So on the one side you have a close cooperation of 4 years, with great successes, and a complete delegation of authority from Trump to Pence on multiple subjects.
On the other side you have very few tweets and other statements, in the middle of PERHAPS THE MOST DELICATE AND IMPORTANT CLANDESTIN OPERATION IN HISTORY, which required loads of strategic deception and misinformation.
And you judge by the latter at face value? I mean, c'mon man 🙂
Very well said indeed.
Among the more repugnant theories floating around is the idea that Pence is somehow a villain.
His designated role is these latest fantastic conspiracy theories about January 6th is that of traitor.
This slander of Pence is appalling. It should be rejected. Pence is a man of excellent character and is entirely trustworthy
@timr @Zemeliko @allamericanmale @StevenDouglas
Please explain why Pence is not a villain?
@Fleur @timr @Zemeliko @allamericanmale
One thing that I'm absolutely sure of about Pence is that whatever he does, right or wrong (to anyone), it's done in good faith. He BELIEVES that he's doing the right thing, and is shooting straight, or he wouldn't do it.
And that tells us nothing other than that, because we know next to NOTHING about what's going on behind the scenes.
PELOSI: As the House comes to order for this important historic meeting, let us remind that each side, House and Senate, Democrats and Republicans, each have eleven members allowed to be present on the floor. Others may be in the gallery.
So, new Covid rule, only 22 of the 538 members of the Joint Session could be present (on the floor) of the House.
Where did the rule come from?
PELOSI: This is at the guidance of the uh..., officiating, uh, ATTENDING physicians and the Sergeants at Arms.